我以J-1身份到美国将近2年了。在国内时医学博士毕业留在一个鸡肋似的医院做医生，所以想到了出国，发了许多信，终于有了这次机会顺利地获得签证来到了美国。
刚来时就有在美国生活几年的同学告诉我美国其实很没意思，的确，这里地广人稀，大街上除了有几辆车几乎没有一个行人，同学朋友又少，下了班回到租的房子里简直就没事干，买了电视看好来坞电影，大部分是追杀，爆炸，追求感官刺激惊险，看多了也没意思，象国内的无聊电视剧，根本不想看。在国内不看电视可以干点别的，晚上逛逛街，会会朋友，吃火锅吃到半夜，在这里晚上却一般不敢在外面乱跑。美国中部地区黑人比较多，大多没工作吃救济，每天晚上在外面活动多，还爱喝酒发酒疯，而纽约洛杉机那样的大城市有一些睡在纸盒子里的人，天一黑就拉出盒子占地方，所以晚上一般都在家里，精神生活比较空虚甚至有点无聊。
从另一方面讲，出来看看还是非常值得的。美国科研体系比较完善，经费也比中国多得多，虽然近几年经济不景气，但各个大学还是有不少教授获得NIH基金资助，一个RO-1基金就是100万。实验室设备先进，最主要的是每个课题的负责人是真正想做些东西出来，他们每天上班就是读文献，写文章，写标书，对整个实验室进展了如指掌，他们大多数是PhD 和/或 MD毕业经过多年postdoctoral训练后才拿到faculty 位置的，所以科研基本功扎实，跟着他们的确能学到很多东西。在研究某个课题时总要了解世界最新进展，总要用到层出不穷的最新技术，在不断学习过程中觉得读那么多年书值，并且还想要不断读下去。
2年的期限很快就要到了，现在是该做抉择的时候。回国还是不回国？
不回去，最令我头疼的是身份问题。J-1签证最长期限是3年，并且规定要有两年归国服务期，如果想多待几年就必须vive，通过了才可以转身份，转成H-1，H-1的期限是6年，在这6年期间必须获得绿卡才能比较自由，整个过程需要7-8年。在这期间不敢轻易回国，回国要返签，万一说有移民倾向牵不出来了，没作好准备美国的工作丢了，中国的工作也早没了怎么办？而且父母年纪都挺大了，一下7，8年不能回家，想起来就有些心痛。
还有出路问题。在这里做postdoctoral 的出路在那里？一般postdoctoral做5年，在这5年里尽量built up, 如国顺利找个faculty 位置就相对稳定，但这是非常难的，除了努力还有运气的成分，只有少数人才有这样的机会。其他的postdoctoral后来都去干什么了？可能有些进生物公司，还有很多就不得而知了。考美国的医生执照也是一条路，也非常难，作为外国人将来拿到执照后能有多少病源也很难讲，不论做科学或做医生，肯定要比美国人付出多得多才能立足。
所以一想到这些，就经常会这样想：我们的祖国人那么多，经济发展很快，经济一上去有钱的人也多，机会也应该多，我当医生挣得钱也不算太少，干嘛非死赖在人家国家不回去呢？但就这么回去又不甘心，既然出来学习，就想真正学到东西再回去，起码发表几篇象样的文章，回去也能找个适当的位置继续做自己想做的事，否则出来两年学点皮毛，除了开开洋荤镀镀金，和不出来也没太大区别。
回去，象原来一样，如果不出意外，按部就班在医院干到退休没问题，做急诊三班倒或24小时值班辛苦些，但那么多人也都那样过来了，凭我博士学位混个教授当当也是顺理成章的。但是说实话我还是想做科学的，或者说还是想做些真正的事，如果回去，医院会鼓励我们写国家自然基金等等的标书，但就算中标了，也不可能把很多精力放在课题上，临床是应付每个病人不要出事，现在医患关系紧张，面对病人是如履薄冰，课题做好做坏凑合总能结题，一句话，有点混日子的感觉。而且在复杂的科室人事斗争中要站对了队伍才能比较平安混日子。好象吸引力也不大。
如果我现在不回去，多在美国呆几年再回去，临床已经丢了，要重新找工作，如果有一些成果，申请到课题继续做科研，当个学科带头人之类的，现在想来是比较理想的一种前景，但可想而知也是多么艰难，现在归国人员多了，“海龟”变“海带”的人也越来越多，学科带头人没有真本事也不可能当上。
以上这种心情在我出国的同学朋友中或多或少都有。
综上所述，我奉劝想要出国的朋友想清楚自己想干什么，美国肯定有他的先进之处，象科研发达，言论自由，生活单纯，在美国做科学有机会，但前途也不是很光明。到美国走过几个城市看看，越发觉得我们的北京，上海是多么繁荣，热闹，比这里大多数城市都漂亮，祖国经济发展，城市建设很快，很多城市都是崭新的城市，而美国，人家说洛杉机１０年都没什么变化。到这里也很难容入白人主流社会的圈子，还是和华人交往为主。但话说回来，这里的华人大多比较nice，没有那么多勾心斗角的事。
我也不知将来会走怎样的路，也不知什么时候会回国，闭着眼睛走一步算一步吧，想太多也没用。唯一可以确定的是在哪里想过得好都要加倍努力才可能有机会，或许我这种不会大搞人际关系的人只能这样努力才行。国内好好的自找的要到美国来接受新的挑战，出来我不后悔，但有时也有些迷茫。
以上的话可能有点语无伦次，仅供参考！
写的好！这才是真实的感觉。
祝你好运！
good luck！
说的很好！
国内也不好混啊！
感觉我们是被浪费的一代！
应届的临床型研究生，读书期间都在实验室里混，等到毕业了也没人要。要临床没临床，要科研没科研。
医院里的大老板多半都把自己的子女送到了国外，与其说等我再熬到了那个年纪和资历再做同样的事情，不如现在就出去算了。搞不搞临床都无所谓了。
野原 wrote:
写的好！这才是真实的感觉。祝你好运！ Good luck！
Jinguxiong wrote:
说的很好！国内也不好混啊！感觉我们是被浪费的一代！应届的临床型研究生，读书期间都在实验室里混，等到毕业了也没人要。要临床没临床，要科研没科研。医院里的大老板多半都把自己的子女送到了国外，与其说等我再熬到了那个年纪和资历再做同样的事情，不如现在就出去算了。搞不搞临床都无所谓了。
Dear All:
This is indeed a good narrative of your first two-year experiences in the US.
Everyone who came here could tell almost the same story as yours. There were initial excitements after being granted an US visa; there was the feeling of being a total stranger when you boarded the flight that brought you cross the Pacific Ocean to this unfamiliar country; there was that huge cultural shook “paralyzed” you when you tried to perform your daily routines; there was a long while that you could not understand what others saying or could not pick up the right words to express yourself. Whatever your head turned, there were difficulties, obstacles and barriers.
The only thing that could soothe your feeling of uneaseness and anxiety was to have a countryman that you could chat with, or get on the phone with your family or significant others.
But all these dreadful sentiments will be eased if one could pass the initial “shook” in a relatively short period of time. Making friends, playing hard after work, or traveling and visiting friends when there is professional meeting around are very effective ways to get out of the situation of being “lonely”. There are two “milestones”, as I call them, during your stay in the US. One is to learn how to drive and get a driver’s license, the other is to get a credit card. With these two things in hands, your eyes will be able to see more, and the distance will not be a major obstacle that prevents you from reach.
As to what career path you will choose, everyone will have a different pick. Nothing could be blamed if someone chooses to stay, or, on the other hand, a bright future may be ahead if one is firm in going back. Whatever route one selects, diligently efforts will eventually prevails.
Coming to the US for a short trip of visiting, or studying and working for your career advancement, or seeking for a long term stay could be a very good experience or adventure in one’s life. It will definitely be filled with stories of excitement, struggling, and joy that will inspire you and others who were told for a long time.
Glad to read your story that definitely made an echo in my mind. If anyone has the similar, please share with us.
P.S. It seems Jinguxiong’s comments were a bit of too pessimistic. No matter where you are, working in the field of basic research or clinical practice, it will always be an experience-gaining process, especially when you are still young. Set up your goal and put up you efforts toward it, you will be rewarded no matter either you’re there (in China) or here (in the US).
Good Luck.
我在英国，感觉和楼主一模一样。其实国外的实验室并不一定都比国内的好，一直做POSTDOC也并无前途可言。如果想混个永久性的lecturer就很不容易，更别说教授了。我觉得不少人在国外其实就是混口饭吃，想要有自己的事业，难啊。
xatrixer wrote:
Whatever route one selects, diligently efforts will eventually prevails.
No matter where you are, working in the field of basic research or clinical practice, it will always be an experience-gaining process, especially when you are still young.
Set up your goal and put up you efforts toward it, you will be rewarded no matter either you’re there (in China) or here (in the US).
I totally agree with xatrixer.
I have read many posts writen by xatrixer, and really have learned a lot.
Thanks a lot
good luck!
现今，出国的人日子都不怎么好过，心情也都大同小异。xatrixer 前辈现在是功成名就，给出了很多宝贵经验，我们应该表示感谢。但毕竟时代不同了。80年代，对签证官来说，要想拒签一个有博士学位的中国人，就象从自己身上锯掉一块肉一样艰难，可现在？那个时候出国的人，也很容易得到绿卡，解决身份，干道现在，起码也都是小头目了。就是在那个时候偷渡出国的没有文化的人，现在都成了腰缠万贯，开奔驰，宝马的大老板了。
可现在呢？一切都变了。中国每年扩招大量的博士，每年大量的博士出国，在世界的几乎每个角落，在几乎每个实验室，都能发现中国人。当然。在国外工作几年没什么问题，但要想进一步，我想遇到的问题不是那些前辈们当年所遇到的。况且，国内的变化之大，生活质量的提高，也是那些前辈们不能意识得到的。所以，何去何从，的确是面临的一个重大问题。
对於那些在国外拿到博士的人来说，他们的前景要比那些在国内拿到博士的人要好，再说，他们一般比较年青，适应能力更强，更能在国外站住脚。而那些出国做博后的人，年龄都已不怎么年青，雄心也已不怎么壮志，精力也已不怎么旺盛，长期代在国外的确不是最好的选择。再说，对一个男人来说，总是被别人控制，给别人做事的感觉不是很好。当然回国后，也要受人控制，但区别很大。
在发达国家的中国人，如果能拿到一个终身位子，即使这个位子是很差的，人们也都非常开心的接受；而如果这个人回到中国能拿到教授和领导的位子，这个人也很可能不回国。这就是问题的所在。如果你想分享发达国家的许多好的东西，如环境等，那就应该不要抱怨地留下来，即使你每天到大街去乞讨；而如果你想享受高级知识分子的尊严与社会地位，就应该回到中国，即使在那里你每天要勾心斗角；而如果你爱国而又不怎么沽名钓誉，就在国外尽量节省点外币，然后回到中国，找一个适于生活的中小城市，如青岛，大连等，买了房子买了地，好好享受余生。
不管我们选择哪种方式，我们的选择都是为了活着；不管我们怎样活着，我们将来都要死。
xatrixer wrote:
There are two “milestones”, as I call them, during your stay in the US. One is to learn how to drive and get a driver’s license, the other is to get a credit card. With these two things in hands, your eyes will be able to see more, and the distance will not be a major obstacle that prevents you from reach.
How come these two "significant" things are thought as "milestone" by you, xatrixer? I am a learner's permit so far although I have been in US for couples of years and kept on renewing it. The reason is as simple as that I don't like to drive. I thought the very one "milestone" was "communication". Though this was not tough to conquer, I really found a quite different world and owned an enthusiastic exciting once passing this barrier. Thus I thought what makes "milestone" is up to a personnel.
在初来乍到，发表一点感想得到朋友的回应，挺高兴，也感谢版主对我的加分鼓励。
在这个论坛里了解到更多有关出国留学人员的想法，也看到了Fang CY 发的关于中国留学生死穴的贴子，觉得跟网上的天涯沦落人谈谈非常亲切。
人生面临太多选择，三十多岁的人了有时还在问自己人生的意义到底是什么？我想那些毕了业有份稳定工作，有了老婆孩子热炕头的同学肯定会觉得这种问题无聊，每天做好自己的本职工作，回家就搞小家基本建设的生活方式也是很幸福的。我为什么不选择那样的生活呢？我也不是工作狂，也不是野心勃勃的人，但我就是在本科毕业进了一家同学都向往的医院后又选择离职上研究生，研究生毕业上博士，博士毕业工作成家买房子后又选择到美国重新打拼。
上研究生时就有同学说从此上了贼船下不来了，从某重意义上讲是这样，在我刚刚考上研究生时我是没想到我会出国的。或许是因为总不满足，或者总想逃避一些什么，一步步走到了美利坚。我想目前来说这里的工作环境挺好，做的东西也比较有兴趣，就是身份和前途问题比较麻烦。
我同意Fang CY朋友的观点，要出来还是尽量早，年轻适应性强，在美国积累几年到三十来岁基本可以在美国安居乐业了。
谢谢xatrixer的指教和斑竹的关照。
在哪里都需要奋斗，这肯定是没有疑问的。
不同的人选择了不同的路，都希望是最适合自己的。
这次陪朋友去广东找工作，感触很深，也加强了自己出国的信念。
北京上海就不想了，一方面生活压力太大，另一方面自己也没有竞争力。
广东毕竟商业气氛更浓一些，不少教授兼职炒楼花，玩股票，开公司，早就是身价百万，千万了。这些年富力强的40左右的副高级的医生，他们还有自己的技术，前些年医疗环境好的时候开刀开出了来的现在都发了。而现在医疗环境这么差，想要赶上他们是不可能的。
本来还以为自己能够屈尊随便到广东一个经济发达的地方做个医生，生活富庶，衣食无忧就行了。
但是事实上这种想法也太幼稚了。在广东读研的大学同学告诉我，广东好多医学院的学生本科毕业就想法找个好点的窝，读研的基本上都是外地的或是往届在职的。像我们这样应届读上硕士，博士，没有临床经验，一点竞争力都没有。庙大的进不去，庙小的就算进去了，自己不会开刀，没有人愿意带教，一样过的很郁闷。
那些没上了贼船同学，现在也是毕竟郁闷：处于医院的最底层，很是辛苦。外科的夜班上2 ～3台手术是常事，儿科的急诊最高可收到13个病人。收入在我们看来不错，但是在他们工资14级表上，他们排到了倒数第二。虽然他们也在佛山买了房子，但是也还是想跳出来镀金。
另一个在广州一所军队医院的学长，也算小有所成，是科室效益的顶梁柱。他说钱倒是没有问题，刚开始苦点，慢慢收入就会高了。但是国内环境却总是一个问题，本来搞乳腺的被排挤去搞肛肠门诊，学的先进的技术如TPN,TEN却因为领导的昏聩得不到施展。现在他把好多时间都花在培养儿子身上，以后肯定让他出国。
几个前两年留校的师兄，都30多了，还像个打杂的，自然科学基金也申请到了，每次开会就数他们最忙。但是在临床却没什么机会，水平仍然在与老总持平。收入上教授们也基本上没让他们喝什么汤。他们也是思忖着准备出去镀金。
这些事情，让我觉得前途很暗淡。而且过两年是什么情况更难说，大把的博士涌向社会，好点的地方都是人满为患。应届的博士，反正也没什么负担，出去做博后，也是没有办法的选择。做了博后以后的打算，就像楼主说的身份和前途问题，我想只能走一步算一步了。
正所谓人生无处不沧桑。
P.S. It seems Jinguxiong’s comments were a bit of too pessimistic. No matter where you are, working in the field of basic research or clinical practice, it will always be an experience-gaining process, especially when you are still young. Set up your goal and put up you efforts toward it, you will be rewarded no matter either you’re there (in China) or here (in the US).
Good Luck.
After read the reply of yours, I think that some vital important things have been ignored.
Firstly, I do not believe that all the people who come from China to USA have the same experience or/and feeling fluctuation. some might have accustomed to the new existence environment, but some might have not at all.
Secondly, to get credit card and drive license are nothing, at least , it is very easy. Thus, it should not be put on the table. even though you think that the more cities or scence one visits, the more experience he will have. As a matter of fact, the national atmosphere are the same everywhere, just like to compare Hangzhou with Shanghai. The feeling of the second-class citizen will be the greatest question about our face.
eventually, the most serious and unbearable thing is the aloneness. I do not the long-term staying abroad is so good as we planned. what you have said is right that the advance techniques and excellent scientifc training will benefit to us, but to my knowledge, the strongly competitive work pressure unavoidably results in more pessimistic mood that optimistic one.
Just my private feeling, may be not right and welcome to any suggestions and corrections.
anyway , good luck to all of us
xatrixer edited on 2004-11-24 23:10
Fang CY wrote:
而如果你爱国而又不怎么沽名钓誉，就在国外尽量节省点外币，然后回到中国，找一个适于生活的中小城市，如青岛，大连等，买了房子买了地，好好享受余生。
不管我们选择哪种方式，我们的选择都是为了活着；不管我们怎样活着，我们将来都要死。
我属于这种，目前对绿卡，和什么教授没什么兴趣。可是就是不知道攒多少钱够呢？
I 'm very glad I read some good articles here. I can't help typing what my thinking, if you don't agree with me, just take what I write as a nonsense.
When I entered the university, I was very disapointed for the university was completely as what I thought, it very bad , very limited resourses, little freedom, so that cause a strong will on me to go abroad. However I tried many ways I still can't go abroad, finally I get the chance, it seemed so easy now, and some of my collegue now, will soon become a professor or at least a senior scientist in their own country, it very easy to me getting a research scholar position, but i decided i will never try to seek such position again. What changed my thoughts so much? What i consider I persue so much finally change into nothing. There are many reasons, something is not easily to got often cause great desire; my age changed so i have more life experience than the past; my living enviroment is much better than the past; the most important my will of striving hard is greatly attenuated after work and have a family; my research thinking and ability is not compared as ph.D student here, this often made me very frustrated and susbicious about whether I can be successful or not in the research.
I think what made me worried about most is seemed there are several choices I have no uncertainty which one is the brightest. Ihis include a philosephy opinion, what we live for? There are two answers: one is live for how to survive, the other is for how to survive well. of course there questions abount these two answers, but I 'm not a philosepher, if you think deeper, it will made me more pessimic. Most of us have sovled the problems of how to survive who browse this page, so there is only one question left, how to survive well? I think many persons ask many times in a day of this question, perhaps in diffrent ways. And many small questions compose this one question. including how to earn more money, perform well in one's own job(also have interest in what he is doing), less pressure, less effort, how to earn respect from others, got good relationship.
So i classified the goal into the five categries of the persons of my kinds:
1 be an officer: lower officer, money average or less, pressure less, risk less,enjoy less; higher officer, money much, pressure high, risk high, enjoy high.
2 be a professor of a hospital: money average or much, pressure average or hign, risk average, enjoy avrage.
3 be a drug sales manager: money much,pressure hign,risk average, enjoy hign
4 be a reseach professor in US or 2nd boss in European countries, money much, pressure high, risk average, enjoy average.
5 be a sweeper in abroad, money less,pressure less, risk less, enjoy less.
let me explain: what your goal is hign, you effot you pay is much, the pressure is much.
lower officer , head of medical dpartment or reaseach department; higher offcer, dean of the hospital, headmaster of the university. to be a sweeper aboad? in fact, I really know some persons have a high education as a sweeper here, they seem transiently satisfyed with the position , frankly speaking , the job even is not easy to get. I never see small of them, they have a really less burden like us.
More choices, cause infilct . But it is much better than no choice.
So I think it is important to work hard and learn more and use our intelectual when we are young in our country. For it is difficult to go up, it is easy to fall down. When your main goal is fullfied, it will always make you happy. In our country , the people are not equal, when you are in a low position, you will feel not happy. In foreign country, people are comparative eaqual than us. When you choose a job of sweeper , althougn he has a low social position but compare with the proffessors, they take the effort and pessure.
Some of my collegue will never be professors, but they still feel happy.
That 's my opinion.
to agree with you and support to you !!!
Shizhou ，I can not understand you.
I continue to express my opinion here, I consider that it's very important to decide whether or not you should to go aboad (the aim to go aboad), what time , which country, it's deserve to take the effort and time to go aboad.
According to my observation, most persons staying aboad are not very well. I believe many persons strive hard to survive. thinking all day how to sustain staying, the contract is coming near, how to find a job to have a higher salary.
So what's your aim to go aboad, i often meet some person they have no or very vague aim. It's really bad. I admit, we can't see very clearly what our future, but at least we have some aim, that cause us persue strongly. According my experience, what you are learning or the technique you ahve mastered , if after 5 or 10 years, you will enjoy from it when you do the same job. so my advice is, when you do well now in our country, you just need a short time to improve you. So you must choose the lab, the country. If you do very bad, it's not in ugence to go outside. You must think very clearly. You can't solve the problem outside. Someone they want go aboad crazely, they go to a country thae never know, e.g Norway, very wealthy country, I consider it's the No.1 wealthiest per person GDP. But living in Norway is very expensive, a pizza 120yuan, hotdog 40 yuan and the renting... If you take your own money, it will soon run out, if you want to find a temperary job, very little people, very little chance, and some good job need speaking Nowagien. So think think and think before going aboad, everyone in his own mind is very important, so don't waste time. money, energy.
So we need select before we going aboad, which lab is the most important, you must find the lab is suit for you, some are clinical lab, they often have fixed technique, in this area they do very well, they often publish artilce in special articles, the IF is not high. some lab in basical reseach, maybe have very high research levels , but you must find you are competive or not. And also before go outside, you must master the basic lab tecnique, read literatures in this field, that will save a lot of time after you arrived. And also you need a very strong interest and enthsiasm to do reseach work, in forein lab, most technique are available, you needn't worry about technique. The most important thing is what to do. So catch up with the literature and very famililar with it is what we should do.
看了前面那么多感想,有不少都好象是说出了我的心里话.我是因为探亲而来美国的,现在已经一个月了.以前是儿科医生,因为医院规定,即使探亲也要辞职,因此不得不考虑在这里长期逗留的打算了.不少朋友都劝我把Board考出来.我是个没什么长远打算的人,现在对我而言,最重要的是把语言关给过了,哎,整天是只闻其声不明其义真是很痛苦的,当然这阵痛是难免的,我要再接再厉.正如前文所言,这里地广人稀,想找个人练习口语听力都不容易,所以我申请去做志愿者,对我来说也是个挑战呢.
说到考美国医师执照的问题,我现在也是毫无系统的复习,主要是看些习题.我的感想是,无论我是不是能考出来,这种复习都不会是一种浪费,目前看了一门行为医学和一点遗传学,觉得自己的知识结构也得到了更新,很有收获.所以,目前在毫无紧迫感的情况下复习,虽说对考试而言不是好事,但是心情会比较舒畅.
虽然过来的时间不长,但是我也感到,无论在哪里,都没有省力又讨好的路,付出是必然的,收获是不定形式的,但是你所期望的收获却不是必然.从长远来看,为自己积累一些经历,积累一些感受,可能比积累一些资金和学术经验更为受用.
无论是国内还是国外,祝愿所有的中国朋友好运!
zhaoju2000 wrote:
虽然过来的时间不长,但是我也感到,无论在哪里,都没有省力又讨好的路,付出是必然的,收获是不定形式的,但是你所期望的收获却不是必然.从长远来看,为自己积累一些经历,积累一些感受,可能比积累一些资金和学术经验更为受用.
无论是国内还是国外,祝愿所有的中国朋友好运!
[/quote
并不赞同。
时间过去了就追不回来了。盲目地出国，有可能就是浪费时间和生命。在国外生存是容易的，但要有自己的事业，社会地位是何其难。
并不赞同。
时间过去了就追不回来了。盲目地出国，有可能就是浪费时间和生命。在国外生存是容易的，但要有自己的事业，社会地位是何其难。
同意你的看法。同样，在国内要有自己的事业和社会地位也不容易，所以是否出国本身并不是最关键的，主要还是看个人的人生目标和运转方式。
赞同zhaoju2000的看法。
又想工作待遇好，福利高，又要有前途，并且这一切都不需要花费什么就达到，这种好事去哪里找？而且就算有为什么一定要轮到你，所以说不想付出的话是什么也得不到的。当然我也不觉得盲目的付出是正确的，关键是大家要考虑清楚什么是自己可以接受的底线，什么又是自己绝对不能接受的，没有人是对自己的生活状态很满意的，无论在国内或国外，国内的就算有好工作和待遇，也会感叹理想抱负不能实现，国外的好象在为理想拼搏，却又羡慕国内的稳定与安逸。所以关键的是认清自己是什么样的人。
就算清洁工工作好待遇高可以拿身份我也不会把它当成终身职业，因为没兴趣会很难受，但有些人可以，所以不是教育水平的问题，而是什么是最适合自己的。
在一个小县城，周围是和煦的阳光，和轻柔的音乐，面前是咖啡，外面是江景，看Shizhou谈what we live for和the aim to go aboad，sheenhl谈身在他乡为异客，xatrixer谈two milestones，呵呵
我想，如果我们有一个宗教信仰可能就没这么感想了。世界太大，信仰是一个瓶子。但我们多数人都没有这个瓶子，所以面对太大的世界，不免接触到太多的虚空，有太多的不确定，以至于dna2004都不知道攒多少钱才算够了。生活无虞了，接下来干什么？总得追求点什么吧？
所以，“唐·马西诺”在《西西里人》里说：Life is hard.
其实人生的乐趣在于奋斗的过程中，一旦回首，你会觉得高处不胜寒！
水涨船高！上了贼船就下不来了！只有往更寒的高处不但迈进！
人生不过是个过程，如果当初你不出去说不定会后悔一辈子的，回来也好，我认为不一定要干临床，干点基础也好。关键是国内体制不利于搞科研
对啊，现在国内科研气氛很差。
生活艰难，今后该怎么走啊
Totally agree with most of your words. I have been to America for three months(spounsored by our government, J-1), and will stay here for another nine months. I will come back to China even if I have chance to stay. The most important thing in my mind is learn some techniques here and live in our own country. You can enjoy your life and work only by this way because of the different culture and custom.
hi you are luckier than me .i don't know any japanese.but i come to japan.it is so difficult fo rme to live here.
当我们面对着周围无数的诱惑，而眼里的成功概念狭隘到只有“升官发财，出人头地”时，必然会产生上面提到的诸如“哪里有好的位置啊，哪里赚的钱多啊”之类的困惑，又有几个人能够真正的去体会事物本身的乐趣呢。
试想我们的前辈们肯定没有这么多的诱惑，这么多的选择，他们可能只能沿着命运安排好的一条路走到底，但他们同样成功了，同样“升官发财了”。
唉，可怜的中国当代文化，可怜的，在没有－除了“名利”以外－信仰的文化下成长起来的一代所谓的“高级“知识分子。
每个人选择不同的生活方式和不同的证实自己的方式，就好象中药和化药，建立在完全不同的理论基础之上。
但你总是无法非常客观的评价哪个更好。
而生命短暂。你也不可能去一一验证。
就好象如果我得了绝症，无论我用有限的生命去尝试中药还是化药，都一样会很快的离开这个世界。而我的亲人朋友，也一定会对我的选择而后悔或懊恼。
但这个事实，却是谁也无法改变的。
所以，对我们而言，无论选择怎样的努力，都一定要保持快乐！
国内国外就象是一个围城，人生就是一种辛苦，因我们在找寻生活的意义。国外对我而言还是想去看看的。国内有影响的医生们你们是如何从一个小医生成为一个名医呢？付出与得到又是如何一种比例？
我毕业后在临床上工作了快又10年了，是在职的硕士。有到国外读博士的想法，但是总觉得基础研究没有多大用处，特别是回到国内的非教学医院里。所以希望能够读临床的博士。听说在欧洲有这样的机会。不知道哪位师长、师兄能够不吝赐教，非常感谢。
